Locked this post is targetted towards sand

[F F S]

This topic is targetted towards Sand, feel free to discuss below.

A few weeks ago, you asked for feedback and suggestions on how to fix the server, repopulate the server as it was before. It isn't the updates or the quality of updates that have been bad, it's the fact that every feedback given gets shutdown by you or straight up ignored and whenever somebody doesn't agree with you and gives criticism they get the boot. One of the most recent examples is this:

Fulltimewife made one singular comment that apparently upset you and made you almost boot her off the game, even after everything she has done for you and for the game.

Rather than a civil conversation I feel like players need to watch their mouth to not get booted. It genuinely feels more like a dictatorship, this might be overexaggerated but it honestly feels like this. Another example is Hamderhans, sure he has broken some rules, but he was the one that did give criticism about the GP nerf, maybe not constructive, but definitely criticism. His way of giving criticism was probably not the best way, but this is not a reason to boot him straight of the bat.

I even remember one player that joined and donated a couple hundreds of dollars that lost his lucky armadyl godsword over a neitiznot helm and told you to "fix your game" and got booted off. Yes, I agree it's not the way to give feedback, but the fact that this little interaction got him booted off, rather than a lighter punishment is in my eyes insane. If you treat your players/contributers like this, you won't last with a big community. The guy even made a youtube video about it.

More of the older players and players that have camped that certain boss told you about their experience and that bossing was not the issue for the insane flow of GP, in fact thieving was and still is one of the best money makers, believe it or not. A player named Bruce Wayne even admitted he made 2b raw gp in 2 days of thieving back prior to the nerfs. I may be wrong, but to this day I still believe that the only reason the GP income has been nerfed was due to 5-10 players that played for max 20 hours kept complaining about "zilyana" and certain players having thousands of kills of zilyana. This was one of the most impactful updates on the game, as invention had it's expansion closely after, which was a huge sink for end game players. This change was disliked by a lot of players as it came out of the blue. There was no transparency about this update whatsoever, which probably made people more upset.

This post even indicates that you thought that zilyana was the core issue of the coin income. Yet people were able to brainlessly click the thieving stall for up to 50-60m/hr with no effort. Zilyana had it's upkeep in runes, gear repair costs. Rather than nerfing the GP flow income there were more ways to tackle this issue. What I see is that the core of the problem in your first sentence was that zilyana is afkable. But rather than communicating these kinds of issues with the community, you took the matters into your own hands.

Last of all, in the post you made a couple weeks ago, you claimed you were transparent and would aim for that again. The screenshot of the conversation is taken from the #questions channel on discord. It shows that even your staff members have no clue about the changes you're making, making it hard for them to give proper answers to certain questions. Changes like these should be mentioned, even if they are small changes. This may not be a big deal, but it shows that you're not as transparent as you could be. I know it's difficult to make a post about changes you make every x days, but you have staff to be able to do these kind of things. Even if it's just a discord announcement.

Take this topic as you will, if you want to ban me feel free, it just proves my point exactly. I, as a player, have given up investing my time on this game.

[Yggdrasil]

Regardless of your personal belief (and not to necessarily disregard it altogether), Sandstorm has built this server from the ground up by himself with no external support when it comes to coding, constructing and testing this game. Everybody makes mistakes; Sand had the maturity and will to admit that by creating this thread. However, do I think that it's fair that this sort of.... mob mentality (there is no better way to describe it) is brewing because people do not like how this man operates on the game that HE created? No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair how you have the audacity to try and create a mockery of the man by posting memes about him in the Discord channel questioning his integrity one day, grossly disrespecting staff on that same day and then coming here trying to force changes and start a discussion the next. This attitude shows that it is very clear that you don't care for the integrity of our server, nor are you showing sympathy for a man who has put his soul and against all odds built something from the ground up when nobody thought he'd succeed. Heck, you've even gone so far as to criminalize my fellow colleague by posting a harmless screenshot of his as evidence against Sandstorm.

There are other circumstances at play that affect our game, it isn't all just Sandstorm. Players like @Yipe, @Fulltimewife and @Sprout who take mature approaches in tackling these sensitive issues by asking questions, being polite and considerate of a one man army are stellar examples of what should be happening. This seems like a character smear on Sandstorm.

How dare you suggest that he has given up on this server. The man puts in 20+ hour shifts coding day-in day-out for OUR benefit, not his. This is the thanks he gets?

If you want changes, be a positive member of this community. Create feedback threads that highlight the good and the bad, give him recognition for the hard work that he's put in.

I'm going to finalize this by asking you this:

If the only thing you heard about yourself was negative from the very people you're spending your life working for, how would you feel?

[shiny shinx]

in regards to that last comment id like to intervene, it might feel like shit but thats what happens when you do stuff no one wants or likes and it effects the game in a negative way when its for his "business". i wont go into more details but someones gotta be saying this shit.

[F F S]

9 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Regardless of your personal belief (and not to necessarily disregard it altogether), Sandstorm has built this server from the ground up by himself with no external support when it comes to coding, constructing and testing this game. Everybody makes mistakes; Sand had the maturity and will to admit that by creating this thread. However, do I think that it's fair that this sort of.... mob mentality (there is no better way to describe it) is brewing because people do not like how this man operates on the game that HE created? No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair how you have the audacity to try and create a mockery of the man by posting memes about him in the Discord channel questioning his integrity one day, grossly disrespecting staff on that same day and then coming here trying to force changes and start a discussion the next. This attitude shows that it is very clear that you don't care for the integrity of our server, nor are you showing sympathy for a man who has put his soul and against all odds built something from the ground up when nobody thought he'd succeed. Heck, you've even gone so far as to criminalize my fellow colleague by posting a harmless screenshot of his as evidence against Sandstorm.

There are other circumstances at play that affect our game, it isn't all just Sandstorm. Players like @Yipe, @Fulltimewife and @Sprout who take mature approaches in tackling these sensitive issues by asking questions, being polite and considerate of a one man army are stellar examples of what should be happening. This seems like a character smear on Sandstorm.

How dare you suggest that he has given up on this server. The man puts in 20+ hour shifts coding day-in day-out for OUR benefit, not his. This is the thanks he gets?

If you want changes, be a positive member of this community. Create feedback threads that highlight the good and the bad, give him recognition for the hard work that he's put in.

I'm going to finalize this by asking you this:

If the only thing you heard about yourself was negative from the very people you're spending your life working for, how would you feel?

You told me to take this to forums and I did. Did you forget what you said or do I have to show you this screenshot.

Sure, this is probably a harsh way of bringing it to him, but if the nice approach doesn't work I have to take the hard approach. I know that sand has been working on this game alone and I know he has a family. But let's say, you work in the healthcare sector and you keep helping the patient without listening to their wishes, do you think the patient really appreciates your help? Running a server isn't an easy thing I know, but communication is a key part in this. If you just keep making changes without discussing it with your community, I don't think it'll work out.

When it comes to your colleague, I have censored this. I was approached by this individual by private messages. This conversation is widely available however.

[Yggdrasil]

3 minutes ago, F F S said:

You told me to take this to forums and I did. Did you forget what you said or do I have to show you this screenshot.

Sure, this is probably a harsh way of bringing it to him, but if the nice approach doesn't work I have to take the hard approach. I know that sand has been working on this game alone and I know he has a family. But let's say, you work in the healthcare sector and you keep helping the patient without listening to their wishes, do you think the patient really appreciates your help? Running a server isn't an easy thing I know, but communication is a key part in this. If you just keep making changes without discussing it with your community, I don't think it'll work out.

When it comes to your colleague, I have sensored this. I was approached by this individual by private messages. This conversation is wide available however.

Oh, no, I definitely told you that. I just didn't expect you to go about it this way - without any sympathy or acknowledgement for everything the man has done. It seems incredibly disrespectful that you smear his name without highlighting any of the good that he has done while creating this technical marvel of a server. If you had given him praise for the positives he HAS done, and given constructive criticism, I would've been able to take this topic more seriously.

 

6 minutes ago, shiny shinx said:

in regards to that last comment id like to intervene, it might feel like shit but thats what happens when you do stuff no one wants or likes and it effects the game in a negative way when its for his "business". i wont go into more details but someones gotta be saying this shit.

This is definitely one way that you can look at it, and I'm definitely not going to disregard your belief on that matter. I too think some of the changes were negative for the server, but I'll never forget the hours he's put in for us, and I will endlessly defend the man for them, because as a member of staff I have a closer view into the time he dedicates than other people do. Like I said in my reply above; if only people were capable of acknowledging the good this man has done, this might all be different.

[Fulltimewife]

23 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

If you want changes, be a positive member of this community. Create feedback threads that highlight the good and the bad, give him recognition for the hard work that he's put in.

I've been debating replying because I was dragged into it, but I will like to touch on this & the following quotes. 

Why highlight the good parts of the server? If it's a good part of the server, why not just leave it as is & give attention to the bad parts that need changes? Making needless "this server is good because of X reasons" seems meh in my opinion? Unless it's a positive reaffirmation & sand doesn't know something is good for the server unless the players mention it, then sure, I can buy that as a reason.

26 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Players like @Yipe, @Fulltimewife and @Sprout who take mature approaches in tackling these sensitive issues by asking questions,

Yes, I approach these situations maturely because otherwise I risk being banned for saying the wrong thing, so everytime I am asking questions regarding the state of the server or any of my concerns, they have to be professional & polite, else I risk being silenced for having the incorrect opinion of the server. My opinion of the server lately is a negative one, I for one am extremely fed up & bored of the current state, partly because the community sucks, partly because Sandstorm listens to the idiots among the community that have stupid opinions. 

 

29 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Sand had the maturity and will to admit that by creating this thread.

Regarding this thread, as I gave my input on that thread & regarding the problem I believe Velheim to have, Sandstorm then made a follow up thread & told us that we are wrong, a screenshot of this is provided citing "transparency", That quote was taken from said follow-up thread, but is actively disproved by my question, a change occurred, nobody was notified, people are left confused. This is one of many, many examples, to name one invention perks (Precise was fixed 3 weeks prior to the change-log being updated, Aftershock was a custom perk for god knows how long before I delved into it to try & crack what the problem was, it was then discovered in an off-hand comment by sand in the friends chat, that Aftershock is a custom perk despite not telling anyone, on any forum post, it was then reverted some time after).

 

I'm not really sure how to finish this post, I enjoy Velheim, but I don't enjoy the direction it's going, if Sandstorm believes this direction to be the best for Velheim & the community at large, then so be it, I guess that'll be the next era of  Velheim

 

 

[Sandstorm]

Interesting conspiracy theories and messages taken out of context/twisted to your liking.

I'll give you a B+ for the effort.

[F F S]

3 minutes ago, Sandstorm said:

Interesting conspiracy theories and messages taken out of context/twisted to your liking.

I'll give you a B+ for the effort.

If I'm wrong, could you elaborate on this "messages taken out of context". I could bring up the posts and discord messages if you'd like and disprove me on these messages. would appreciate it.

If I would take messages out of context I'd just screenshot the parts where you're threatening people with bans?

 

 

[Sprout]

I didn't want to comment on major changes anymore, I have no friends left and was just going to sit at the back and enjoy what ever comes up but someone tagged me .-.

 

Firstly I'd like to point out that I was in agreement for a gp nerf I just couldn't come up with any creative fair ways. I don't believe it should have been lowered to as low as what is it now without more alternatives been offered because there are still people around with 20b cash when new players coming in will now find it harder to make 2b (I'd personally have liked pyramid plunder buffed because you can't really auto click that). Things were unfair, not everyone could leave 3 accounts running to farm gold all fucking day long, it was something that had to be changed and you know who you have to thank for it and no not just hamderhans he just gets talked about the most because the way he went about vocalising his opinion was not done in the best way (Seen him suggest people to stop voting for the server because y'know hydrix rank and a shit ton of coins was not enough??), there is also bruce wayne making 2b in 2 days from thieving (allegedly and most likely leading to the stalls nerf), something that is extremely easy to autoclick, you think that all that was healthy for the eco?  

 

As for the beta chat, Sand gave everyone that has linked there discord access to the beta chat and world to test major changes, in this case it was combat. Overall like 10 people have logged on to it, with about half of them testing and the other half opening clue scroll caskets.. The question asked was are off-hands over buffed, under buffed or perfect and like we do, we bombard with information that was not requested to the question because he is just buffing off-hands damage as requested in the poll here. Sure he was getting annoyed at us because the people have voted that they want stuff made easier, he got fed up of us not answering the question at hand with a simple yes or no. Images below of us getting out of hand because it went from offhands good? Yes or no to Noxious weapons, ecb spec blah blah blah. Imagines blow are prior to before sand exploded when he told us he didn't care about 2h's or any weapons in particular but we just kept going and it descended into chaos fast which mostly would have clamed down unbans give and apologises exchanged if it got to that point. This really was something you should not have really have posted here as it was between other parties that are not your self. 

Short version - Suggesting changes that people don't want according to the polls so Sand was getting mad and just wanted a straight answer or yes or no because he can't do updates based on the opinion of 3 people at the time. It was just unfortunate that it escalated to the point it did and winter revel had fallen (#freewintersand)

Spoiler

 

 

 

My two cents - I don't think Sand will ever give up on the Server, it's his passion project and he learns protocol and new content while adding it to further his knowledge of coding in the rsps scene. However I wouldn't be surprised if he gives up on the community and decides one day enough is enough and turns it into his off-line passion project or just sells his services to others because of the amount and constant flow of shit people throw on him can't be good for his mental state. 

[Fulltimewife]

1 hour ago, Sprout said:

The question asked was are off-hands over buffed, under buffed or perfect and like we do, we bombard with information that was not requested to the question because he is just buffing off-hands damage as requested

He asked if off-hands were buffed enough, I showed him a comparative, showing Dual Wield weapons vs Eldritch Crossbow, showing how they compare to one another, since Sand does what he believes is correct, I showcased that every tier as low as t60 out dps'd the T92 Crossbow, which I thought was self-explanatory that Dual Wielding is super fucking OP, if I should have provided more context that one number is vastly larger than another & that the tier is vastly lower, that means that number is better, then I'll do that in the future

[Sprout]

31 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

He asked if off-hands were buffed enough, I showed him a comparative, showing Dual Wield weapons vs Eldritch Crossbow, showing how they compare to one another, since Sand does what he believes is correct, I showcased that every tier as low as t60 out dps'd the T92 Crossbow, which I thought was self-explanatory that Dual Wielding is super fucking OP, if I should have provided more context that one number is vastly larger than another & that the tier is vastly lower, that means that number is better, then I'll do that in the future

This is just reiterating the point I've just made, we went got carried away and bombarded him with information, information that was not necessarily requested, It's in the screen shots above of him explaining that he likes the presentations but is looking for short answers of good for all, equal, bad for all and then you posted more statistics, from there it went down hill because you both ignored each other. I know you have good intentions in regards to balancing and don't think that I'm personally attacking you about this. I am guilty of it my self, we went around out backsides to reach our elbows for a simple question that was basically a 3 answer multiple choice question, would have been more practical to post a strawpoll for us to vote on after testing.

[Fulltimewife]

21 minutes ago, Sprout said:

This is just reiterating the point I've just made, we went got carried away and bombarded him with information, information that was not necessarily requested, It's in the screen shots above of him explaining that he likes the presentations but is looking for short answers of good for all, equal, bad for all and then you posted more statistics, from there it went down hill because you both ignored each other. I know you have good intentions in regards to balancing and don't think that I'm personally attacking you about this. I am guilty of it my self, we went around out backsides to reach our elbows for a simple question that was basically a 3 answer multiple choice question, would have been more practical to post a strawpoll for us to vote on after testing.

Check again, I hope that's simple enough for people to understand 

[Sprout]

31 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

Check again, I hope that's simple enough for people to understand 

Genuinely, it really means a lot. It gives people a chance to get involved in the conversation and know what's going on even without testing because it's a short & sweet, provides enough knowledgeable information and only takes but a few seconds to read.

[Arcadiez]

Criticism can be delivered in many different manners, many which you have included as examples are demeaning and just rude. Try for once to see it from the other way around; you log in someone instantly bash you with "dude fix this shit", "fix that shit". "This sucks", "this is broken". You can't even enjoy a regular conversation without someone complaining, nagging and being a pure asshole. 

Sprout formulated it perfectly, ask for one thing and instead get push with irrelevant information and annoyance. He opened up the beta to get some help about 2h/oh adjustments, not to get how fucking bad the ecb spec is...Being already tired and a bit burned out and gets the opposite of what was asked. Of course you're gonna get irritated, that's how ANY human works. 

What sand needs is a real vacation, a vacation from work and away from the community. 

I don't think you guys understand the pressure and constant back-lash from players who lack empathy, feels like. This isn't a normal job, not a 9-5 job. 

I have seen many friends and family members gotten burned out from constantly having to focus on work or work related stuff. You expect a one man team to do everything every day with the out most passion and attitude? Yeah, you clearly haven't worked enough if you always are the nicest and friendlies person at work.

Sometimes you got to be supportive instead. 

[Fulltimewife]

6 hours ago, Arcadiez said:

not to get how fucking bad the ecb spec is...Being already tired and a bit burned out and gets the opposite of what was asked. Of course you're gonna get irritated, that's how ANY human works. 

I stated it 3 times, the ECB spec is a fixed amount of time, the number represents how much damage that weapon does within that fixed amount of time, change ECB Spec to "15 Seconds" & it's the exact same thing, but I often forget there's many people who know very little about the game, so next time I'm sharing such things, I'll remove all of the maths & just stick to short & sweet numbers & if anyone wants to see the proof / theory behind it, I'll supply it