Locked The state of the Velheim economy

[Fulltimewife]

5 hours ago, Arcadiez said:

Telos weapons should be repaired with its respective dormanted part, Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Ascension crossbows should be repaired with a keystone. Lets say each keystone repair 10%. Force people to farm more keys. Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes.

Eldritch crossbow should be repaired with stock, limb or mechanism.

Repairing Telos weapons with the dormant version of the weapon sounds incredibly questionable, because, why would you? 

 

Repairing drygores with damaged chitin sounds pretty good, I believe that's the intended way on RS3, so, no real complaints there.

 

Repairing Ascensions Crossbows with Keystones is also extremely questionable, since the opportunity cost of just running the legio associated with it to gain another signet ring will just outweigh the reasoning to repair the weapon with the keystone when you can just farm another weapon with it. 

If the cost is a dormant version, it'd be more cost effective to just disassemble it once the durability got too low & remake a new weapon all together, because then you gain invention EXP, materials from the weapon & your perks back.
Last I checked, Dormant SGBs sell for 700m+, Zaros Godswords for 350+ and Staff of Sliskes sell for roughly the same, so these opportunity costs to repair a weapon is kind of steep in my opinion.

ECB being repaired with ECB parts is also ??, ECB parts are not equal, because of the bad RNG of the playerbase, there is significantly less limbs in-game than there are the other two pieces, using a limb to repair an ECB is a massive waste as you can just, make another ECB & disassemble the ECB you were using to return the gizmos + gain perks.

 

Overall a massive 3/10 for these high-level changes, the drygore one is reasonable & fine, the rest are incredibly disconnected from the state of PvM in velheim. 

[NubonmyPC]

9 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

Repairing Telos weapons with the dormant version of the weapon sounds incredibly questionable, because, why would you? 

Repairing drygores with damaged chitin sounds pretty good, I believe that's the intended way on RS3, so, no real complaints there.

If the cost is a dormant version, it'd be more cost effective to just disassemble it once the durability got too low & remake a new weapon all together, because then you gain invention EXP, materials from the weapon & your perks back.
Last I checked, Dormant SGBs sell for 700m+, Zaros Godswords for 350+ and Staff of Sliskes sell for roughly the same, so these opportunity costs to repair a weapon is kind of steep in my opinion.

ECB being repaired with ECB parts is also ??, ECB parts are not equal, because of the bad RNG of the playerbase, there is significantly less limbs in-game than there are the other two pieces, using a limb to repair an ECB is a massive waste as you can just, make another ECB & disassemble the ECB you were using to return the gizmos + gain perks.

I agree with all of these. There more con's than pro's with the only pro being, these items would get sold (iguess?)


also 

10 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

Repairing Ascensions Crossbows with Keystones is also extremely questionable, since the opportunity cost of just running the legio associated with it to gain another signet ring will just outweigh the reasoning to repair the weapon with the keystone when you can just farm another weapon with it. 

i dont *persay* agree with this one. You could go a 100 kills dry where you just could've used a couple of keys to repair em. Im not sure if its the way to go but it sure isn't a *bad* idea.

[Fulltimewife]

12 minutes ago, NubonmyPC said:

i dont *persay* agree with this one. You could go a 100 kills dry where you just could've used a couple of keys to repair em. Im not sure if its the way to go but it sure isn't a *bad* idea.

Well RNG is RNG of course, you could never see a signet in hundreds of runs, like we had with ED2 & ED3 with ECB pieces, that's just RNG of course, but looking at average opportunity cost, given the drop-rate of signets, you should see a full crossbow before you exhaust your current, but again, that's on an average basis, bad RNG is a thing that can happen

[Arcadiez]

40 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

Repairing Telos weapons with the dormant version of the weapon sounds incredibly questionable, because, why would you? 

 

Repairing drygores with damaged chitin sounds pretty good, I believe that's the intended way on RS3, so, no real complaints there.

 

Repairing Ascensions Crossbows with Keystones is also extremely questionable, since the opportunity cost of just running the legio associated with it to gain another signet ring will just outweigh the reasoning to repair the weapon with the keystone when you can just farm another weapon with it. 

If the cost is a dormant version, it'd be more cost effective to just disassemble it once the durability got too low & remake a new weapon all together, because then you gain invention EXP, materials from the weapon & your perks back.
Last I checked, Dormant SGBs sell for 700m+, Zaros Godswords for 350+ and Staff of Sliskes sell for roughly the same, so these opportunity costs to repair a weapon is kind of steep in my opinion.

ECB being repaired with ECB parts is also ??, ECB parts are not equal, because of the bad RNG of the playerbase, there is significantly less limbs in-game than there are the other two pieces, using a limb to repair an ECB is a massive waste as you can just, make another ECB & disassemble the ECB you were using to return the gizmos + gain perks.

 

Overall a massive 3/10 for these high-level changes, the drygore one is reasonable & fine, the rest are incredibly disconnected from the state of PvM in velheim. 

The point is to make higher end items more expensive to repair. Plus make usage of hoarded items.

also as stated ->"*** Don't think all of them should be added, some of them are just better to remain as they currently are."

But please if you have any alternative suggestions or think they shall remain. Please state which should do what.

What about the armour related ones?

Every suggestion can't be that awful?

[Fulltimewife]

4 minutes ago, Arcadiez said:

The point is to make higher end items more expensive to repair. Plus make usage of hoarded items.

This doesn't make it "expensive to repair" this makes it expensive to use, you will not use these weapons unless they're extremely high-end bosses if the repair cost was this ridiculous.

4 minutes ago, Arcadiez said:

What about the armour related ones?

Armour ones seem fine? T92 can just make the sirenic / tectonic repair patches from Elite Dungeons, Trimmed Masterwork repaired with regular Masterwork gear & that fixes that really. 

 

5 minutes ago, Arcadiez said:

also as stated ->"*** Don't think all of them should be added, some of them are just better to remain as they currently are."

This is just a cop out disclaimer, you gave your opinion, I gave mine on why it's a bad idea, just adding that doesn't make your suggestions free from criticism.
 

 

7 minutes ago, Arcadiez said:

But please if you have any alternative suggestions or think they shall remain. Please state which should do what.

My opinion is that a full blown eco reset should be added, a Velheim 2.0, but Sandstorm will never do that as he has stated in the past that there will be none, with the countless changes to drop rates, dupes, "bad rng" that players had for months, there's just piles upon piles of shit really & the best course in my opinion, would be a do-over with everything he's learned so far. 

[Arcadiez]

41 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

This doesn't make it "expensive to repair" this makes it expensive to use, you will not use these weapons unless they're extremely high-end bosses if the repair cost was this ridiculous.

Armour ones seem fine? T92 can just make the sirenic / tectonic repair patches from Elite Dungeons, Trimmed Masterwork repaired with regular Masterwork gear & that fixes that really. 

 

This is just a cop out disclaimer, you gave your opinion, I gave mine on why it's a bad idea, just adding that doesn't make your suggestions free from criticism.
 

 

My opinion is that a full blown eco reset should be added, a Velheim 2.0, but Sandstorm will never do that as he has stated in the past that there will be none, with the countless changes to drop rates, dupes, "bad rng" that players had for months, there's just piles upon piles of shit really & the best course in my opinion, would be a do-over with everything he's learned so far. 

Yes, I want a discussion what's good and bad. Criticisms is good, keep it coming! That's how we know what to do and what to not do. But I want more, you only gave me what's bad about the high tier weapons. What about everything else?

But i personally dont think a reset is a good idéa. Sure it may please some og players, but for all whom just started will lose everything they grinded for. Imagine if you just spend 300h gaining gear and items then poof, it's all gone.

 

 

 

[foxx]

2 hours ago, Arcadiez said:

But i personally dont think a reset is a good idéa. Sure it may please some og players, but for all whom just started will lose everything they grinded for. Imagine if you just spend 300h gaining gear and items then poof, it's all gone.

 

 

 

I don't care for a reset either, none-the-less good idea for eco of course.

What happened with the idea of throwing items into well at a set price instead? Mainly include hardcore farmed items such as drygores, nox items, ecb parts, even the dormants you want. This would take many out of the game whilst also benefitting everyone else in the server. Along with a global announcement (at a set dono amount of course maybe 25m+) of who is filling well + what they're putting. Would have to set the well price to adjust for that such as spirit shield being 10m each instead of retail since they're easier to get... where as ecb parts may fill it fully and count towards titles. More titles for getting rid of items would also promote people to do it more often. As it is sometimes people don't contribute because they don't have the gp or do not care for the xp/"dr boost?" (irons, novice+ etc). It seems to generally be classics and staff filling it just because we benefit the most, although that could be a false statement correct me if i'm wrong.

p.s. sure it would be rough for a week or two since everyone would start dumping items for well, but long term probably benefit.

[Arcadiez]

33 minutes ago, foxx said:

I don't care for a reset either, none-the-less good idea for eco of course.

What happened with the idea of throwing items into well at a set price instead? Mainly include hardcore farmed items such as drygores, nox items, ecb parts, even the dormants you want. This would take many out of the game whilst also benefitting everyone else in the server. Along with a global announcement (at a set dono amount of course maybe 25m+) of who is filling well + what they're putting. Would have to set the well price to adjust for that such as spirit shield being 10m each instead of retail since they're easier to get... where as ecb parts may fill it fully and count towards titles. More titles for getting rid of items would also promote people to do it more often. As it is sometimes people don't contribute because they don't have the gp or do not care for the xp/"dr boost?" (irons, novice+ etc). It seems to generally be classics and staff filling it just because we benefit the most, although that could be a false statement correct me if i'm wrong.

p.s. sure it would be rough for a week or two since everyone would start dumping items for well, but long term probably benefit.

I'm still for the well thing, however i know many people couldn't care less if the well was active or not. Nor obtaining any titles/pets from it. Since they only gonna focus on pvm.

It's a great idea for skillers and those who play on more difficult modes. But again, end game need a nerf. Early game need a buff. Just my personal opinion:)

[foxx]

41 minutes ago, Arcadiez said:

I'm still for the well thing, however i know many people couldn't care less if the well was active or not. Nor obtaining any titles/pets from it. Since they only gonna focus on pvm.

It's a great idea for skillers and those who play on more difficult modes. But again, end game need a nerf. Early game need a buff. Just my personal opinion:)

I do not disagree with end game nerf, although one of the BIGGEST lump money sinks is the well (considering for skillers w/e). What other benefits could come from having it on just to get people to dump regardless what they do in the game? I also disagree with the statement people don't care if well is on if they pvm. I can name countless instances when for example Sterling would leave an Elite Dungeon instance just to fill it *SOLO* for the MINIMAL if ANY drop rate boost. We still do not believe in it, that being another topic. Nonetheless he still fills it because any advertised drop rate boost should help you get drops, no? That's a good place to think about as well in my opinion but i'm a classic so maybe it's invalid to everyone else. :shrug: . Not saying any of your ideas are bad exluding what wife has covered, just inserting another idea to capitalize on for the benefit of everyone.

[ryandunn]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:02 AM, Arcadiez said:

So been thinking a little.

Introducing death cost is great. Since gear degrades/turn into dust upon death, with the ability to pay to insta-receive armour. It's overall a good money sinker. And more punishable to those who hard-afk.

Late Game
 

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These are more nerfs than buffs.

Armour

Masterwork should be repaired with masterwork plate. This encourage people to mine more or sell more ores.

Sirenic should be repaired with Sirenic scales, Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Tectonic should be repaired with tectonic energies. Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Malevolent should be repaired with malevolent energies. Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

For trim version of each set idk if they should be repaired the same as their lower tier. Any suggestion?

Weapons

Drygores should be repaired with damaged chitin. Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Spear of Annihilation/Masterwork spear should be repaired with masterwork plate. This encourage people to mine more or sell more ores.

Khopesh(t92) should be repaired with scraps of scripture. I think a blessing is a bit too much to ask for, which will stop people from using it as it will take forever to obtain 100 scripts for a blessing.

Nox weapons should be repaired with a full leg piece, Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Telos weapons should be repaired with its respective dormanted part, Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes obsolete.

Ascension crossbows should be repaired with a keystone. Lets say each keystone repair 10%. Force people to farm more keys. Unless it's dyed, otherwise it's gonna make dyes.

Eldritch crossbow should be repaired with stock, limb or mechanism.

Seismic wand/orb should be repaired?

Wand of praesul should be repaired?

 

*** Don't think all of them should be added, some of them are just better to remain as they currently are.

However my top pics would be the. Drygore, Masterwork, Sirenic, Malevolent, Tectonic.

 

Higher end bosses should also drop more coin. Making them more worthwhile.

 

New addition

Hardmode gw1, gw2 and Vorago hardmode.

Add Beetlejuice attack to KK. Need eg a shield to not insta die, shield absorb x-amount of damage.

Some of Magister attacks aren't added. Add the missing ones to make him a bit more challenging.

Buff the dmg of the bombs a bit to force a bomb tanking roll. Making use of shields

These bosses are a bit too easy and not worthwhile for late gameplay. Hardmode gw1, gw2 increase pet drop rate? Separate hiscore for it. Making more og players wanna do pvm again.

Players have asked for coloured version of EOF, so they can store different specs.

MTX related

The point is to have more stuff to aim for, and keep bonds prices up.

I still think we need an ONYX zone, not that much benefits going beyond Diamond.

I would like a donator in-game shop with untradeable cosmetics. Each zone having more items.

Loyalty titles, we lack of a lot of loyalty titles. Loyalty recolour option.

As we have discussed beforehand, possible having game perks being tier wise and upgrade-able.

Growth Surge, possibility to select which growth phase a legendary pet should be at

Some titles that cost Velheim coins

Chameleon Extract

Achievement banner

 

Mid Game

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I'm not sure for mid tier game-play more than buffing higher end-slayer gp drop, possible add something like Sunken Pyramid. Rewarding GP for obtaining souls for your Dungeon?

Possible introduce Miscellania kingdom. Interface

 

Early Game

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I see a lot of new player struggle with getting coin, as well as having a hard time starting out.

My suggestion would be add something like a Task/Achievement system.

I think this is an amazing addition, since it will introduce new players to a lot of content. Especially if they come from OSRS and haven't played RS3.

Eg introduce the steps to make a Masterwork armour, which will show the basic of the Mining and Smithing rework.

RS3 already have a lot of good ones on wiki.

Not only will it be a new way to gain some GP for new players. It will also give og players something more to grind for. Possible have cosmetics/titles and other rewards for completing certain amounts of achievements. Eg Trials outfit, Vanquish sword, sunspear

Other RSPS have something similar, however it's not that custom since RS3 also has it. But they only rewards points and not GP.

 

Holy cow! The amount of work and thought put into this is amazing. Amazing ideas and I hope to see some of these implemented!!! 

[ryandunn]

18 hours ago, Fulltimewife said:

This doesn't make it "expensive to repair" this makes it expensive to use, you will not use these weapons unless they're extremely high-end bosses if the repair cost was this ridiculous.

End game stuff should be expensive to use. You shouldn’t be using t92s and stuff to do bosses that aren’t end game content. Doing this will keep end game content drops valuable, give a reason for mid tier items to hold more value to players that have also reached end game, and give low tier players a good chance to make good money from a mid tier drop. I don’t get the point of this reply. Death should be very punishing, especially for players with some of the best items in game. 

[Fulltimewife]

2 hours ago, ryandunn said:

End game stuff should be expensive to use. You shouldn’t be using t92s and stuff to do bosses that aren’t end game content.

Respectfully disagree, why would I farm a T92 weapon, just to actively harm myself using it & only limit it to using it at places that will refund me the money of using it?, it defeats the purpose of farming these weapons if the only place I can comfortably use it, is at bosses that either drop the weapons for repair costs, or bosses that make enough money on an hourly basis I can justify using it, both of which are extremely bad ideas, because, the "stop players hoarding items" will become a worse problem, since players will hoard these items to repair their gear, rather than sell it.

 

2 hours ago, ryandunn said:

Doing this will keep end game content drops valuable, give a reason for mid tier items to hold more value to players that have also reached end game, and give low tier players a good chance to make good money from a mid tier drop.

It won't, it will not make end-game items more valuable, it will force players to not sell them at all, it would force anyone who cannot sustain their T92s to just, use lesser weapons until they can use their T92s, (Chaotics & Royal Crossbow for Range). I'm not entirely sure how mid-tier items will be more valuable if end-game items are repaired with their parts, is it for the point I mentioned about players won't use their T92 gear if they can't sustain it? So they'll use mid-tier items to compensate for the lack of ability to use T92? 

They'll just use Chaotics & Drygores, both of which would be really cheap to upkeep & obtain, one of which is an untradeable, so the mid-tier items haven't really changed as there's no reason to aim for t85 gear from GWD2 if Chaotics are cheaper to maintain for the average player. 

2 hours ago, ryandunn said:

I don’t get the point of this reply. Death should be very punishing, especially for players with some of the best items in game. 

So you 100% believe that in order to repair an Eldritch Crossbow, a respective ECB piece is a good idea, as is dormant pieces for Telos items? 

Death should be punishing, yes, but if the cost of repair is a part of the weapon, players who are not like myself, sterling or foxx, who can comfortably run ED3 for pieces to upkeep our ECBs, or run Telos all day to upkeep our Telos weapons are severely fucked by this, this doesn't punish players who can farm these items because our death are few & far between at these places, you're just punishing the average player entering the end-game because their gear upkeep is vastly more than it should be. 

[ryandunn]

23 minutes ago, Fulltimewife said:

Respectfully disagree, why would I farm a T92 weapon, just to actively harm myself using it & only limit it to using it at places that will refund me the money of using it?, it defeats the purpose of farming these weapons if the only place I can comfortably use it, is at bosses that either drop the weapons for repair costs, or bosses that make enough money on an hourly basis I can justify using it, both of which are extremely bad ideas, because, the "stop players hoarding items" will become a worse problem, since players will hoard these items to repair their gear, rather than sell it.

 

It won't, it will not make end-game items more valuable, it will force players to not sell them at all, it would force anyone who cannot sustain their T92s to just, use lesser weapons until they can use their T92s, (Chaotics & Royal Crossbow for Range). I'm not entirely sure how mid-tier items will be more valuable if end-game items are repaired with their parts, is it for the point I mentioned about players won't use their T92 gear if they can't sustain it? So they'll use mid-tier items to compensate for the lack of ability to use T92? 

They'll just use Chaotics & Drygores, both of which would be really cheap to upkeep & obtain, one of which is an untradeable, so the mid-tier items haven't really changed as there's no reason to aim for t85 gear from GWD2 if Chaotics are cheaper to maintain for the average player. 

So you 100% believe that in order to repair an Eldritch Crossbow, a respective ECB piece is a good idea, as is dormant pieces for Telos items? 

Death should be punishing, yes, but if the cost of repair is a part of the weapon, players who are not like myself, sterling or foxx, who can comfortably run ED3 for pieces to upkeep our ECBs, or run Telos all day to upkeep our Telos weapons are severely fucked by this, this doesn't punish players who can farm these items because our death are few & far between at these places, you're just punishing the average player entering the end-game because their gear upkeep is vastly more than it should be. 

No, I’m not saying this is the exact solution I’m just saying that there needs to be a way to  make death very punishing for players that have reached end game. I personally think that making it GP to get any items back outside of a 3 (4 with protect item) that you automatically keep need to have a real penalty. Charge gp to get them back, and have them lose item charge of 10-15%. Constantly needing GP for repairs will have people selling more items to have that gp and losing the item charge creates more demand for whatever that charging item may be wether it’s sirenic scales, masterwork armor pieces, etc. 

arca put some really good suggestions that all obviously would need to be extensively thought over but the amount of thought he put into those suggestions deserve a better response than just shitting on all his ideas instead of offering any real constructive criticism other than calling for an eco reset. 

[Fulltimewife]

11 minutes ago, ryandunn said:

I personally think that making it GP to get any items back outside of a 3 (4 with protect item) that you automatically keep need to have a real penalty. Charge gp to get them back, and have them lose item charge of 10-15%. Constantly needing GP for repairs will have people selling more items to have that gp and losing the item charge creates more demand for whatever that charging item may be wether it’s sirenic scales, masterwork armor pieces, etc.

This is the complete opposite of what Arcadiez suggestions are, they're not suggesting you use GP for these, they're suggesting you repair them with the respective items to create them, which will further increase the "hoarding problem" as players will not sell these items for GP when they need them for repairing items..... 

 

11 minutes ago, ryandunn said:

arca put some really good suggestions that all obviously would need to be extensively thought over but the amount of thought he put into those suggestions deserve a better response than just shitting on all his ideas instead of offering any real constructive criticism other than calling for an eco reset. 

If you believe me to be aimlessly shitting on his ideas, you have not read or understood anything I have said, Arcadiez has & they very much understands that I am not talking out of my ass or disagreeing with him for the sake of disagreeing, his point about the drygores & armour, I agree with because those are sensible ideas with a sensible change to the economy, however, the changes I do not agree with are the ones I have listed,
 

Furthermore, you have also fallen victim to the one thing you're annoyed at me for, you haven't given any constructive criticism to my arguments as to why I believe Arcadiez's to be bad, nor offered any real replies other than "t92s should be expensive to use" 

[Sprout]

This thread has now descended from it's  purpose of getting people to trade more to getting people to 'use the items they are hoarding in there banks' and gp sinks. It'll just add to the cause of hoarding and I personally believe it'll further impact the lack of trading due to the fact I would personally stop selling anything because of having to worry about repair costs then or just stop doing pvm in general tbh so that's already 1 less person trading items. 

 

• If you want items to be repaired more, then add them rs3 style - Patches for the armour, masterwork for trimmed.. Sure.
  • 'Custom' repairing, no. Why? Demoralization, if you think that upping the costs for using higher end gear will help get player to player trading a kick start again you need to have a long hard think about it.

 

• Eco resets are also just a big fat no, same type of people have been suggestion eco resets since the beginning of rsps', I can't recall any server doing better or recovering (player wise) from a eco reset (not to be confused with servers that were taken down and relaunched x year(s)/months later) along with this not addressing the root of the problem, it'll just happen all over again. Please, stop suggesting this. People are not fans of being told that the hours of there life they spent achieving stuff is to be taken away in seconds, not everyone has the same dedication as others and would stick around.  P.s. Not a personal attack on wife, just a rant on the topic going off the rails t.t

 

Now to the topic at hand, my main questions is below as I'd like to dig deeper into the causes for lack of trading before coming up with any suggestions. 

 

Is the current lack of trading effected by;

A. Not enough gp in the Eco.

B. Too much gp in the Eco.

C. Too many Items.

D. Not enough Items. 

 

For those people that have multiple items of any type;

 

What is stopping you from selling your spare items?

A. Price is to Cheap, I don't want to sell.

B. Price is too expensive, most people can't afford.

C. No buyers/Takes to long to find a buyer.

D. I wont sell regardless I just like hoarding. 

E. - Insert your own answer here-